Doge - 100% LUA ??

[teiki arii]

beautiful systems: what about the differences between CDP?
best regards, teiki

[Tubes]

Nice pics, no analog?

[Perka]

Some comments on the sound Lua Appassionato vs. Droplet 5.0

First, the Droplet must be run through the XLR outputs. It becomes a much cd player.
Its even OK to used a semibalanced cable (XLR in droplet end and RCA at amplifier side).

Secondly, its sad to find out that Droplet is really the best of the two. There is no question about this if you hook it to a pair of great speakers like the Infinity Reference standard 4.5
It’s sad because I, like many people who listened to Droplet, dislikes the design. It would be OK if it was a small cd player. But its huge.

The Lua is still a very good cd player with excellent drive and timing. Its just that you loose so much normal references when you compare with such a good player as the Droplet.
The Lua has more direct palying stile that may please some people. You sometimes need a really good reference speaker to hear how superior Droplet is and what it makes that the Lua is missing.

Droplet adds even more warmth in the midrange to the voices. There is more air around the
instruments It adds more information to the music. First you think there is less bass with the Droplet. But after a while you realise the bass is of better quality. Soemtimes you can hear a powerful and subtile bass with the Droplet that disappears with the Lua…
Droplet has a sense of calm that makes everything so natural and analogue.

There is one further important thing to add though. Droplet has run 200 hours and the Lua 100 hours. The ecc81 of the Lua are Siemens but I still have the original chines 4 x ecc83
You may be able to improve the Lua on this side, but I doubt it ever will reach the Droplet.

So difficult to learn this. I really like the Lua design and it is a very good cd, but not as good as the “Brutal looking” Droplet.

[teiki arii]

Some comments on the sound Lua Appassionato vs. Droplet 5.0
First, the Droplet must be run through the XLR outputs. It becomes a much cd player.
Its even OK to used a semibalanced cable (XLR in droplet end and RCA at amplifier side).
Secondly, its sad to find out that Droplet is really the best of the two. There is no question about this if you hook it to a pair of great speakers like the Infinity Reference standard 4.5
It’s sad because I, like many people who listened to Droplet, dislikes the design. It would be OK if it was a small cd player. But its huge.
The Lua is still a very good cd player with excellent drive and timing. Its just that you loose so much normal references when you compare with such a good player as the Droplet.
The Lua has more direct palying stile that may please some people. You sometimes need a really good reference speaker to hear how superior Droplet is and what it makes that the Lua is missing.
Droplet adds even more warmth in the midrange to the voices. There is more air around the
instruments It adds more information to the music. First you think there is less bass with the Droplet. But after a while you realise the bass is of better quality. Soemtimes you can hear a powerful and subtile bass with the Droplet that disappears with the Lua…
Droplet has a sense of calm that makes everything so natural and analogue.
There is one further important thing to add though. Droplet has run 200 hours and the Lua 100 hours. The ecc81 of the Lua are Siemens but I still have the original chines 4 x ecc83
You may be able to improve the Lua on this side, but I doubt it ever will reach the Droplet.
So difficult to learn this. I really like the Lua design and it is a very good cd, but not as good as the “Brutal looking” Droplet.

Siemens ECC83 are not so good tubes: they are of middle range, no more. Try JJ/Tesla ECC803S - long plates - very cheap and great, or better the RCA 5751 in stead of 12AX7 and RCA 12AT7/Mullard CV4024 in stead of original 12AT7... You should improve by far compared to Siemens....
best regards...

PS: don't forget that Lua scheme is very "simple" compared to Droplet: less chip more tubes. So the sound is very dependent on the quality of tubes, more than for the droplet...If you change condos for great ones, it should be amazing...I'm sure about it.

[Perka]

Some comments on the sound Lua Appassionato vs. Droplet 5.0
First, the Droplet must be run through the XLR outputs. It becomes a much cd player.
Its even OK to used a semibalanced cable (XLR in droplet end and RCA at amplifier side).
Secondly, its sad to find out that Droplet is really the best of the two. There is no question about this if you hook it to a pair of great speakers like the Infinity Reference standard 4.5
It’s sad because I, like many people who listened to Droplet, dislikes the design. It would be OK if it was a small cd player. But its huge.
The Lua is still a very good cd player with excellent drive and timing. Its just that you loose so much normal references when you compare with such a good player as the Droplet.
The Lua has more direct palying stile that may please some people. You sometimes need a really good reference speaker to hear how superior Droplet is and what it makes that the Lua is missing.
Droplet adds even more warmth in the midrange to the voices. There is more air around the
instruments It adds more information to the music. First you think there is less bass with the Droplet. But after a while you realise the bass is of better quality. Soemtimes you can hear a powerful and subtile bass with the Droplet that disappears with the Lua…
Droplet has a sense of calm that makes everything so natural and analogue.
There is one further important thing to add though. Droplet has run 200 hours and the Lua 100 hours. The ecc81 of the Lua are Siemens but I still have the original chines 4 x ecc83
You may be able to improve the Lua on this side, but I doubt it ever will reach the Droplet.
So difficult to learn this. I really like the Lua design and it is a very good cd, but not as good as the “Brutal looking” Droplet.

Siemens ECC83 are not so good tubes: they are of middle range, no more. Try JJ/Tesla ECC803S - long plates - very cheap and great, or better the RCA 5751 in stead of 12AX7 and RCA 12AT7/Mullard CV4024 in stead of original 12AT7... You should improve by far compared to Siemens....
best regards...

PS: don't forget that Lua scheme is very "simple" compared to Droplet: less chip more tubes. So the sound is very dependent on the quality of tubes, more than for the droplet...If you change condos for great ones, it should be amazing...I'm sure about it.

Teiki arii, thanks for your advice!
I actually saw before that you liked the ecc803s so I looked on internet to buy it at many places but I can't find them. Please post/PM some good
internet sources!!

Secondly, by "condos" do you refer to the tubes?

[Tom_H]

Perka,
that is not what I expected to read. I would have liked to have the DOGE over the Droplet......... But what about the Opera Reference 2.2mk3 compared with the DOGE? Which one is the better one, according to your taste?

Looking forward to hearing from you..........soon.......
Best regards,

[Perka]

teiki ari, I also tested 4 x telefunken ecc83 which gave a slightly less
agressive sound but not much better in general terms.

[souldriver]

Hi Perka

thanks for this interesting audiophile benchmark between Lua Appassionato and Droplet 5.0. i totaly agree that the droplet does not look very handsome. for me, it looks more like a "pregnant designed toaster" and in fact on your pictures it looks realy huge. as you know i ordered my doge with a cayin A-88T and i will get the units in about a week. what i am surprised in your test is, that the difference in soundquality between the mentioned players must be definitely important. surprised because in some german hifi magazins they mentioned that the lua is one of the topend players on this earth (specialy for the money - 3500euro - you have to pay for!). i guess (or better HOPE) for the lua, that with longer breakin time and replacing the original chinatubes you can get a higher and better soundquality. did you drive the droplet also with cinch cables to compare the difference between balanced and unbalanced mode? in my experience (depending on kind of player) this can make a big or very small difference. specialy in unbalanced mode the quality of the connections becomes more important. 4 weeks ago i ordered in the US a pure silver cinch cable for over 900US$ and the effect was an incredible better soundimprouvment (much better soundstage and depth, more detail and bass). last question: what will you do with 2 players?

have fun and thanks again

Souldriver

[Tom_H]

...............it looks more like a "pregnant designed toaster" .................

[souldriver]

Hi Perka

thanks for this interesting audiophile benchmark between Lua Appassionato and Droplet 5.0. i totaly agree that the droplet does not look very handsome. for me, it looks more like a "pregnant designed toaster" and in fact on your pictures it looks realy huge. as you know i ordered my doge with a cayin A-88T and i will get the units in about a week. what i am surprised in your test is, that the difference in soundquality between the mentioned players must be definitely important. surprised because in some german hifi magazins they mentioned that the lua is one of the topend players on this earth (specialy for the money - 3500euro - you have to pay for!). i guess (or better HOPE) for the lua, that with longer breakin time and replacing the original chinatubes you can get a higher and better soundquality. did you drive the droplet also with cinch cables to compare the difference between balanced and unbalanced mode? in my experience (depending on kind of player) this can make a big or very small difference. specialy in unbalanced mode the quality of the connections becomes more important. 4 weeks ago i ordered in the US a pure silver cinch cable for over 900US$ and the effect was an incredible better soundimprouvment (much better soundstage and depth, more detail and bass). last question: what will you do with 2 players?

have fun and thanks again

Souldriver

[Perka]

in some german hifi magazins they mentioned that the lua is one of the topend players on this earth (specialy for the money - 3500euro - you have to pay for!).
Souldriver

Remember firstly that a german magasine wrote a good review of a "german product". Swedish magasines writes often good rerviews about swedish products, and so on. Secondly, never trust a review as a buying decision only. Listen and trust what you hear.

did you drive the droplet also with cinch cables to compare the difference between balanced and unbalanced mode? in my experience (depending on kind of player) this can make a big or very small difference. specialy in unbalanced mode the quality of the connections becomes more important.

We tested all possible ways of connecting. The silver cable interconnect has been replaced by
nordost valhalla and silversmith in one 80K euro system.

what will you do with 2 players?

I borrowed the Droplet so it will be returned (I think because I cant stand the design, but I don't want to miss it musicly).

[Perka]

Perka,
that is not what I expected to read. I would have liked to have the DOGE over the Droplet......... But what about the Opera Reference 2.2mk3 compared with the DOGE? Which one is the better one, according to your taste?

Looking forward to hearing from you..........soon.......
Best regards,

I largely prefer the Lua over the 2.2 mk3. Less screaming on difficult voices, more body to the voices, better bass and
more calm presentation and so on..

[teiki arii]

teiki ari, I also tested 4 x telefunken ecc83 which gave a slightly less
agressive sound but not much better in general terms.

I have got Telefunken "diamond" ECC83 and they are very good but they don't sound like the ones I told you, cheaper but more musical: best regards.

TELEFUNKEN ECC83 SMOOTHPLATES MATCHED PAIR


RCA 5751 BLACK PLATE MATCHED PAIR DOUBLE MICA


MULLARD CV4024/12AT7WA


You can find JJ/Tesla ECC803S in MP for a good price there:
http://www.boiaudioworks.com/index.php? ... 1b1c3c169b

[teiki arii]

I must tell people that I didn't say, since I have none of the two CDP , that one is better than the other one. But the Lua/Doge is more dependant of tubes than the Droplet. So, you have to take care of this and besides, you should change original condos by better ones. That's the more important thing to do IMHO.
Best regards...

PS: another interesting link:
http://www.roehren-und-hoeren.de/phpBB/ ... ght=jolida

[Perka]

I just ordered 4 x Try JJ/Tesla ECC803S - long plates
and 2 x Mullard CV4024
Express mail.

Let's see..

[teiki arii]

I just ordered 4 x Try JJ/Tesla ECC803S - long plates
and 2 x Mullard CV4024
Express mail. Let's see..

[Perka]

teiki, did you know that the appassionato
uses "Only finest WIMA MKP 10 double- layer, polypropylene coup
ling capacitors, selected to 0,2 % tolerenace are used in signal
path."
Is that really a bad capacitor?

[teiki arii]

teiki, did you know that the appassionato
uses "Only finest WIMA MKP 10 double- layer, polypropylene coup
ling capacitors, selected to 0,2 % tolerenace are used in signal
path."
Is that really a bad capacitor?

It's not a bad one of course, but mundorf or audyn cap plus are better and the sound with them does not like the same...The VDC is different and it makes the difference...

[Tom_H]

Hi teiki arii,
thx for the advise on the tubes for the DOGE. When I got you right, you recommend the JJ/Tesla ECC803S in terms of value for money:?:

[teiki arii]

Hi teiki arii,
thx for the advise on the tubes for the DOGE. When I got you right, you recommend the JJ/Tesla ECC803S in terms of value for money:?:

yes actually.